COMMUNITY

The Banatar and You...
6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 3:37PM
Venetia
Posts: 372

Quote by V-Singular
OK all, time for some feedback from the community. A mini "new" feature we're testing out is the "Banatar" (Ban + Avatar...we're so clever!). You can see an example of the first recipient here: community.saintsrow.com/viewtopic.php?f=...

That's only a 24 hour ban, so I'll have to manually remove it soon, but this would end up being fodder for anyone who gets a full ban. Also, the user has no way of removing this at all - even after a 24 hour ban, so we can put any title and image there we would like.

My question to all of you - Yay or Nay? Should we stick with this or do something else? I'm fully open to suggestions since this is a small side project.

What is your point? You present a question that, with all due respect, can only serve to either stroke your ego or mislead members. And, I seriously doubt this was your aim or intention. An entire process seems to have been glossed over very quickly here.

Do you mean to have the forum rules serve as what would constitute the justified banning of a member? If not, then are we to learn by what criteria members might expect to be judged?

Further, does Volition have a position against lifetime bans? Your proposed measure along with a policy that includes banishment for so short a term as 24 hours appears to target the more youthful of our membership. Do you actually expect to modify behaviour through such a method or is this merely part of a more comprehensive design?

Aside from that I generally take issue with punishment or negative coercion to obtain desired behaviour. I think people have to want to conform. To achieve this one needs establish an environment that supports positive change. Listen..

A friend of mine is warden at a federal penitentiary. He has spoken with me about the differences in approach between canadian and U.S. prisons with regard to achieving the successful re-integration of prisoners back into greater society. That the U.S. is far behind in the number of crucial programs in place to educate and reform prisoners. To be blunt that prisoners in U.S. penitentiaries too often end up with entirely the wrong sort of education.

That is not to suggest that Volition need take so extreme a view of its membership. It was only an example of how the fundamental aim of an institution will affect what objectives can be realistically achieved. A slap on the wrist of miscreant members will not dissuade them from future excess. Doing so only weakens your position. So, either educate them better or ban for much longer durations with the expressed possibility of permanent expulsion.

Lastly, it strikes me as ironic that such action, without debate on the issues behind the decision, is in motion when a thread on this sort of thing lies devoid of serious discussion or official response. I dislike the thought of guests and tentative members to our forums being presented with an amateurish attempt at disciplinary enforcement. However, I am on record as supporting and liking or Mod team and can only wish them the best with this.

-Kitten

P.S. To me this is meant to be a community of responsible adults. This should direct how Mods and members act and expect to be treated.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 3:57PM
V-Singular
Posts: 6526

This isn't a permanent addition at this time - I wanted to see what people thought of this. No matter how much I hate suspending or banning people from the forums, there are rules in place for a reason, and people break those rules. Without rules, this place would be very difficult to get your opinion across or find answers you're looking for.

That's what the warnings that we hand out are for. You have multiple chances to improve your behavior and understand how to follow the minimum rules that this forum has. It really takes some work to be suspended / banned from the forum, as in at least 3 or more warnings.

In my previous company, we did something along the lines where you get so many warnings, followed by suspensions of a growing nature (1 day, 3 days, 5 days, etc.). I've only used the word ban to mean that the name cannot be used anymore. If you continue to break the same guideline over and over, the sheer amount of warnings and suspensions should give you enough of a heads up to stop. My entire time with that community (2.5 years), I only fully banned 2 people who went through all of the steps.*

*Disclaimer - there were some folks who took over accounts or went way over the top of the rules and received a ban on that specific username, but those were far and few between - probably less than 10.

I try to allow as open of a forum as I can, and I think that since this new forum launched, it's been much easier to find the information that you're looking for, and the postings overall have had a much higher level of level of material which can be commented on.

The Banatar is meant to give the community a little more personality, something which while not seen often, does appear from time to time. The reason I asked everyone if they liked it is if we intended to use it for future use. I'm still unsure of it, because it doesn't really serve a purpose unless it's a full permanent ban on that username, since I'd have to go back and remove it anyway after the delegated amount of time (thank you forum software).

My intention was never to have someone react harshly to this, but I can see that this rang a bell somewhere inside of you. I appreciate the feedback and as I said, we probably won't be running with the Banatar in the future, mainly because there's no real point to it, other than to break a quick smile for those who know what it is.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 4:09PM
Venetia
Posts: 372

Quote by V-Singular
My intention was never to have someone react harshly to this, but I can see that this rang a bell somewhere inside of you. I appreciate the feedback and as I said, we probably won't be running with the Banatar in the future, mainly because there's no real point to it, other than to break a quick smile for those who know what it is.

I apologise for lacking the time at present to properly answer your response. Let me quickly add however, that my initial response was not intended to appear as a harsh reaction. Also, that had you stated the above points before your poll then things would have been clearer. And, why appear to go through the motions of something that is closed?

-Kitten

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 4:11PM
V-Singular
Posts: 6526

Quote by Venetia
And, why appear to go through the motions of something that is closed?

Because at the time, it wasn't closed, it was an idea - I wanted to see if it was worth doing or not and looking at the full overview of it, it needs to be changed if it's going to be effective anyway.

Especially since it only took a few minutes to setup and test the entire Banatar anyway.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 4:13PM
tommo
Posts: 1796

Did I miss something? I thought this was about changing the avatar of someone that has been permanently banned. (And the 24 hour ban was just an example.) I thought it was just a little extra feature, with no real significance.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 4:23PM
V-Singular
Posts: 6526

We've had a lot of background ideas on how to deal with this. It eventually started in my head as a thing for people to have if they broke the avatar rule - since that was a new thing, but that went over so smoothly, we never used it. (We'd replace whatever avatar they were using with something else that they couldn't change).

All of this is just meant for humor, that's all.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 6:27PM
FatalEmbrace
Posts: 4432

Quote by Venetia
P.S. To me this is meant to be a community of responsible adults.

Of course it's meant to be, but it's so blatantly obvious that more than half of the community is less than 18 years of age. Take Whitlock for example: What adult has to read Holes and write an essay about it for school? That's a middle school book. Even if he had to do it a year ago, it's still proof enough that he's underage.

You can tell by looking at some of the posts people make. A lot of the things people do are the exact same things I did when I was 13. Arguing over consoles with made-up opinions and facts, getting pissed off at people just because they don't like your idea on something and say so...there's so much.

I'm all for banatars. If people get banned, they deserve it. Why not have a little laugh about it as well?

6 years ago  ::  Aug 28 2008 - 8:12PM
LoC
Posts: 2713

I support Banatars.

Why not had some extra fun to the relief of a bad user?

6 years ago  ::  Aug 31 2008 - 2:17AM
V-Melonball
Posts: 106

Quote by FatalEmbrace
Quote by Venetia
P.S. To me this is meant to be a community of responsible adults.

Of course it's meant to be, but it's so blatantly obvious that more than half of the community is less than 18 years of age.

Honestly, I tend to agree.

I sent a warning to someone who called someone a @#?!$*, saying "hey, homophobia isn't going to fly around here". They responded with a sincere apology, then asked "Is *%! or homo ok to say"

I know it's polly-anna of me to wish that people would stop being ignorant, but i can't help but wonder that even if people don't understand why saying stuff like that is a big deal, if they saw posts with similar hate speech marked with a ban avatar they would get the message.

6 years ago  ::  Aug 31 2008 - 8:29AM
FatalEmbrace
Posts: 4432

Quote by V-Melonball
Quote by FatalEmbrace
Quote by Venetia
P.S. To me this is meant to be a community of responsible adults.

Of course it's meant to be, but it's so blatantly obvious that more than half of the community is less than 18 years of age.

Honestly, I tend to agree.

I sent a warning to someone who called someone a !$*%#?, saying "hey, homophobia isn't going to fly around here". They responded with a sincere apology, then asked "Is *#* or homo ok to say"

I know it's polly-anna of me to wish that people would stop being ignorant, but i can't help but wonder that even if people don't understand why saying stuff like that is a big deal, if they saw posts with similar hate speech marked with a ban avatar they would get the message.

You should probably give me a one day ban then. I used "fags" once in that thread Whitney started. I wasn't calling anyone a **$, I just recited something I read on Uncyclopedia. I guess it's just as bad though.